NEW KEITH CARLOCK WEBSITE

[FuseU1]

http://www.keithcarlock.com/video.htm
http://www.keithcarlock.com/music.htm

[Flarobstix]

I saw Keith subbing for Steve Hass at The Zinc Bar in NYC. It was a latin jazz gig, and Kieth had no clave sills whatsoever. They played a fst tune in seven, and Keith got lost several times. Still h has big shoes to fill in that genre of latin jazz/funk. I later saw him that week with Wayne, and he was simply awesome.
You know, everyone has their strengths. Gonacoccas, I think you're way off. What do you mean by independence? You say there is independence on Coleman's stuff where smitty is playing. There ISN'T. Independence is when each limb is playing a repeated pattern, and one or two limbs can feely improvise over the pattern, like, let's say VIRGIL. Smitty doesn't do that on Colemans recordings, and I've never heard Keith do it. What are you talking about? I've seen smitty do it with swing time. But a simple quarter note on a bellride, or an upbeat, over a com;picated funk groove hardly constitutes real independence.
I think Carlock is great, but nothing more than another great drummer amongst so many great drummers in NYC.

[gonocaccas]

Dammit, no one "dissed" Negro. I think Vinnie's right hand is stiff, but that doesn't mean he's not my favorite drummer. Negro is one of the most innovative drummers of the past 20 years, but that doesn't mean he has perfect technique.
Flarobstix, you need to listen to Black Science or some of the Five Elements stuff by Steve Coleman and then come talk to me. Just because there isn't a constant astinato or some classroom figure doesn't mean it's not independence. Your definition of independence is also controversial.
Opinions are what make people different.Rodney Greene and I had this discussion once (some of you may know who Rodney is, good friend of mine). That's why there are is only one Vinnie, only one Dennis, only one Garibaldi, but tons of clones. The opinions are what sets you apart. It shows when you play. Don't limit yourself to idolizing one guy. Be you. Play like you. Even if people don't dig it. Sometimes they may not get it. That's what makes it unique. Critics used to call Vinnie unfocused....what? It's true. They used to say the same thing about Elvin.
That's why I like Keith more than Ari, more than Jeff Ballard. He's doing some different shit. I would say Brian Blade and Keith Carlock are two guys from the newer school that I'm really liking right now.

My point is these are my opinions. I pay taxes, I vote. Give a brotha a break!

[Tom Hipskind]

Drummers seem to really be polarized about KC. I've come across some outside of this forum who think he's amazing, and others who just can't get with him. A buddy of mine thought he was too "bashy" after seeing him with Sting on the Grammys earlier this year, while I loved his agressiveness and ideas.

I have a really nice bootleg recording of the Krantz trio (not G'wich Mean or Your Basic Live), and I must say I think he's an absolute bitch! His level of interaction is super-high, and his controlled-yet-MANIACAL intensity keeps my interest through these 25-minute tunes. Not an easy task! I just think he has a very fresh sound and, as Gonocaccas put it, he DOESN'T sound like a Vinnie or Dennis clone (unlike me, unfortunately! [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). And his pocket on SD's "Everything Must Go" is beautiful. An all-around joy to listen to. Yeah, kind of an unorthodox setup (and apparently, odd-looking technique), but who gives a f*%#?

-Tom

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ September 27, 2004 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Tom Hipskind ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 27, 2004 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Tom Hipskind ]</font>

[SeattleDrumKing]

Hey Gonacoccas,

If you're really Eric Harland(who's playing at the Blue Note in Osaka tonight and all week), why would you ever say that Horacio has shitty technique? I don't think someone who swings as hard as Eric Harland would say Keith is the new thing when he doesn't play any jazz. But anyhow, if you are Eric, well I hope everyone knows you're dissin Horacio, probably one of the greatest latin/jazz drummers of the last decade.

[Groovin in St Louis]

HA HA! Dayum
Gonacoccas, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. It sounded like you were saying Keith was "IT". In my opinion(everyone else's on here) he's very good, but I wouldn't compare him to the great pocket players of our generation. And if you really are Eric Harland, well, YOU have better independence in my opinion. But I doubt you are, Eric is smart enough not to sign onto a board visited by every drummer on the planet, and diss Nergo. I don't care if you're playing in the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra, I have my opinion. Hey, Lars Ulrich has played in front of more people and in larger venues than you EVER will, but it doesn't mean I repect his opinion about the drums.
In any case, take care!

[cjbdrm]

Ditto what Tom said.

I, too have TONS of boots of Keith playing with Wayne in 97 and 98. Yes, it sounds WAY better than the Wayne's releases. I agree with gonocaccas/Eric? that Keith's got his own voice, and that there are plenty of clones out there.

As far as independence, I've studied Keith a lot and what he does VERY well is to play linear kick snare combos while keeping the hi-hat going on quarters or eighths, with the ride pattern kinda improvised- sometimes eighths, sometimes doubled with the kick, etc. Sure, we all know and understand how to play this suff, but this guy's execution is flawless. It's independence as far as I'm concerned.

By the way, regardless of who gonocaccas is, everyone should check out Eric Harland playing "Standard of Language" on Kenny Garrett's CD with the same name. That is some of the most amazing drumming I've ever heard...Chris Dave, (who we will be hearing more about shortly), also plays on the CD...

[Flarobstix]

I'm sorry cats, but I always considered independence to be more than a hi hat keeping time over some hand and foot patterns. If that's the case, we all have flawless independence. I LOVE Carlock's playing and was amazed at the negative remarks on here. But, I do think grouping him with Blade is silly. Blade is an all around drummer with his own sound and approach ala Elvin, and Levon Helm. Keith can't play clave, doesn't swing in a traditional sense and doesn't have the sound versatility of someone like Blade. He also doesn't solo melodically or keep the form of the song when he solos. But, he IS his own drummer and I do love his style. Maybe in 10 years Keith will be worthy of B.Blade. The day Wayne(shorter) or Herbie Hancock call on Keith, then I'll group him in that "upper" class of drumming that Brian is in.
That's just my opinion.

[Flarobstix]

AND....Chris Dave is one of the BADDEST. I've heard wierd things about his attitude, which is why he's not a HUGE name. He does great gigs, and his work with MINT CONDITION alond with Stokely, is just SICK..

[FuseU1]

I think the deal here w KC is that he's a solid groove player with intensity who also has chops...his time is good...& his drumg accomp feels & sounds good on what he plays...yeah, AFA "independence," or better, "inter-dependence," i wouldn't put him in league w guys like Virg, Vinnie, weckl, Dennis, on & on...but he's just a really good drummer...

Altho I think Smitty is a really good drummer as drummers go, & very solid, I don't see him as doing anything beyond what is standard amongst good working drummers today...his "independence" is not in league w the heavies like we always speak of here, altho as the definition goes, he has it...but for one thing he burnt me out w his OD'g on that dumb 32nd-nt lick down the toms [w the LH staying on sn & RH on the toms]...i hear he plays some cool jazz [cross btwn big-band-ish & contempo], but I just don't hear what's so remarkably amazing about his independence that some guys in here do...[but that in no way is saying he's a "bad" player tho].

Horacio simply kicks asp... & anyone who thinks otherwise is gay, no matter WHO they are. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
["Not that that's a BAD thing..." - Seinfeld] [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 27, 2004 06:08 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>